I went one step further and tried to color correct both of the above pictures. I added blue and took off red. I used the same amounts on both pictures.
Here they are together. I may have done just bit too much on the Adobe but as you can see if you adjust the colors using the same amounts, there is more blue purple in the Adobe image.
DarcyD Aug 3, 2014 4:33 PM PDT
Name: Darcy D Green Oaks, Illinois
Something to keep in mind if you color correct your images...they will look quite different on every person's computer screen. What may look perfect on your computer, may look very different on someone's else's. My laptop & photography desktop are calibrated to my printing lab & I use a calibration meter. One thing I have noticed is that iPhone's do seem to be amazingly accurate color-wise.
Deep reds & dark purples can be challenging to capture without blowing the red color channel. This means loss of detail where that color is in the picture. Depends on your camera, but some just tend to do this. It's usually correctible in post (Photoshop, or Lightroom...maybe even your cameras program)
teddahlia Aug 3, 2014 4:51 PM PDT
Name: Ted Oregon We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
I paid extra for this monitor last year because they said it was calibrated. My wife's laptop screen is pretty bad even though it is only about 2 years old and is an HP. Colors are washed out compared to this monitor. I am not interested in printing many pictures and hope that people's monitors are good enough to see a nice picture.
Are you implying that if you do not color correct the pictures, that they will look the same on most monitors? I do not believe you are saying that.
And what do you have to say about Adobe RGB? It is not supposed to be used for pictures that are to be printed as the calibration is wrong for printers.
anniecan Aug 3, 2014 5:06 PM PDT
Name: Annie Luck Apex, North Carolina BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN TH
Thanks so much for sharing your secrets Steve
I think we all could use a nice backdrop for our dahlias, at the very least.
DarcyD Aug 3, 2014 6:02 PM PDT
Name: Darcy D Green Oaks, Illinois
No, I didn't mean to say that. People's pictures will look how they are taken (settings on camera change this). But...if you do make adjustments in post processing to try and get it to look how it looked in real life those adjustments may look different for others (which you are aware of, Ted by knowing that Margaret's laptop looks different). Even viewing in different browsers, pictures can look different if they aren't saved in Srgb. If you know your camera & the settings you can get really close to perfect by adjusting the settings to the circumstances. Many photographers rely way too much on Photoshop and post processing to fix what should have been done in camera. That said...non-photographers can benefit most by learning their basic settings as it is far easier to do it right in the first place than to try and adjust it later. Most cameras have easy...one selection options that will get darned great images.
I work in the Srgb color space. I do work in a higher space in Lightroom, but once I leave there with my images I move to Srgb & save them in the same. If you go with Adobe RGB it can make some really funky colors on the web and on different browsers when you save them. Srgb seems to be the most accurate, universal color space right now. But, ask 5 photographers & you may well get 5 answers. I help run a photography forum & when we have a new person that is posting pictures of gray/green looking people that is the first question you ask them...usually they aren't saving in Srgb. It's also important if you work in PS to embed the proper color profile when saving (I do Srgb) as some browsers like Safari don't interpret the colors properly unless that is done.
That's probably way more than you needed to know
DarcyD Aug 3, 2014 6:05 PM PDT
Name: Darcy D Green Oaks, Illinois
Nice job, Steve! Thanks for showing us your set up.
teddahlia Aug 3, 2014 6:26 PM PDT
Name: Ted Oregon We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
You have still not answered the question as to whether Adobe RGB has more purple blue colors available. I bet you shoot everything in RAW and are not concerned with it. When my Photoshop program saves the file, using "save as" it has block checked that says sRGB. I assume that it converts the file to that format when I save it.
DarcyD Aug 3, 2014 7:49 PM PDT
Name: Darcy D Green Oaks, Illinois
I do shoot RAW.
Yes, check that block that says Srgb & resulting image will look it's best with most web browsers.
Check your mailbox...I will forward you some information that one of my photography mentors wrote on color space.
steve22802 Aug 3, 2014 8:01 PM PDT
Name: Steve Gerber Harrisonburg, Virginia z6b
Darcy, you seem to know quite a lot about digital photography, could you please photograph a true purple dahlia (i.e. Boogie Nites, Taboo, Formby Kaitlyn, Thomas Edison) and then tell us what settings you used to make it turn out purple and not maroon or raspberry? That would be super helpful! All my other dahlias turn out exactly as they should using my setup described above, just not the purples.
DarcyD Aug 3, 2014 8:21 PM PDT
Name: Darcy D Green Oaks, Illinois
I would be happy to try, but I don't have any of those. Is Diva considered a true purple?
I'm not sure just settings would help you much. Each camera records color a bit differently. And, lighting is so very important. Also, depending on what your environment is doing...your settings will change/be different than mine. When I have trouble with a dark color, I use a flash or bounce light back in with a reflector held to the side but bounced to the face of the flower (just be sure you don't use the gold side, or it will throw your color off). Even a white poster or foam core board can make a huge difference. You just angle it to pick up the light & bounce it onto your subject. If you have trouble seeing it...you can even cover some cardboard in tin foil. Then twist it around until the light hits your subject & you'll see what I mean.
Another suggestion if you are having trouble, would be to use a photography specific flash or natural light. Different types of lights throw different...and, I'm not sure if this is the right terminology...temperatures. Like, in a living room with regular bulbs...you are going to get a very yellow scene. Fluorescent lights make your images more blue. This is why there are settings on your camera that automatically compensate for these situations when you choose them. Even sunlight, will throw a warm glow at sunset compared to a more clean light first thing in the morning.
Darcy, thanks so much for this discussion on cameras and color. I don't understand the details or really want to right now but I am getting an understanding of why it is difficlut and that there are things I could learn if I took the time and had the concentration. I admire your knowledge!
anniecan Aug 4, 2014 3:43 AM PDT
Name: Annie Luck Apex, North Carolina BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN TH
I'm with you Noni. My husband bought me a nice camera that does everything. HE thinks it's the best toy ever, but he also realizes that he married an ADHD woman who would do much better with a point and shoot camera. I'm pushing myself to find that happy medium. I was at the end of the line when they were passing out those "mechanical" genes
He was playing with it to help get an accurate purple. I'll let you know if he has any success with it.
steve22802 Aug 4, 2014 5:48 AM PDT
Name: Steve Gerber Harrisonburg, Virginia z6b
Darcy, I think that Diva is a true purple. I don't have one myself so I can't say for sure. Try photographing it and see what you get.
Here's:
Formby Kaitlyn, Boogie Nites (top row)
a Purple Joy that actually turned purple, a more common (for me) burgundy Purple Joy, and Taboo
I reduced the red channel in Photoshop and that helped some.
I would really prefer to figure out how to get true purples without color correction because I don't want to try to color correct the purple dahlias out of the middle of a mixed arrangement. :(
steve22802 Aug 4, 2014 1:55 PM PDT
Name: Steve Gerber Harrisonburg, Virginia z6b
Ok, so I found a photo on wikipedia that shows the shades of purple and violet that I'm trying to capture. Look at these pansies:
What's the secret? In the meta data it says the photo was taken with a Kodak DX4530 which is just a basic point and shoot camera. Or are violets not the same color tone as violet dahlias? My eyes are getting confused...
steve22802 Aug 4, 2014 4:56 PM PDT
Name: Steve Gerber Harrisonburg, Virginia z6b
Boogie Nites and a pansy. (Daylight, auto white balance, no post processing.)
Maybe the dahlias I have are not really purple at all, I don't know what to think... In real life Boogie Nites doesn't appear to have nearly so much raspberry color as it does in the picture. Does anyone have a dahlia that actually looks like the pansy purple?
anniecan Aug 4, 2014 5:35 PM PDT
Name: Annie Luck Apex, North Carolina BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN TH
Steve, I do not have any dahlias that have that blue-ish purple hue. My Boogie Nights is much less raspberry, as you would expect. So is my Diva, and my Lynn Slight. Those darn cameras!
I consider Diva about as blue as a dark blue dahlia can be, which is to say that is a dark purple, with less "raspberry" then Boogie Nights and Fremont's Memory. I don't have Diva this year to compare to HH Regal, or the other HH Purples.
addicted Aug 13, 2014 1:46 PM PDT
Name: Em NY
Wow! Thank you all for your thoughts and info. So much to think about, but I'm glad to know it isn't just me (or my camera).
teddahlia Nov 21, 2014 9:12 AM PDT
Name: Ted Oregon We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
My SLR Pentax KX has lost the autofocus function. My wife will not use manual focus and the cost of repairing it would be more than the worth of the camera. My kid says I should hold out until after Christmas and maybe be a month or so after that and the prices may come down a bit for the camera I am considering. Since we have all these super Pentax lenses, it will probably be a Pentax K3. Whatever camera it is, it must have the ability to shoot in Adobe RGB and then it will capture accurately purple flowers. I shot several purple flowers with the Adobe RGB setting and they were much better than the standard sRGB shots.
honnat Nov 21, 2014 10:01 AM PDT
St. Paul, MN
Hmmmm....maybe they are saying to wait till after Christmas because there will be one under the tree??
All my other dahlias turn out exactly as they should using my setup described above, just not the purples.
